TWR Podcast: Episode 83 - Interview With Kelly Richmond Pope

In this episode of the Woodard Report Podcast, Heather Satterley sat down with Kelly Richmond Pope, an award-winning educator, researcher, and documentary filmmaker. For those intrigued by the intersection of accounting, ethics, and storytelling, listening to this episode of The Woodard Report podcast is a must.

Meet Kelly Richmond Pope: Educator, Filmmaker, and Expert

Kelly Richmond Pope, a professor of accounting at DePaul University in Chicago, brings a wealth of knowledge and enthusiasm to managerial and forensic accounting. This episode, proudly sponsored by Rightworks, delves deep into the intricacies of accounting fraud and the human elements of financial discrepancies—a topic described by the host as exceptionally "juicy."

Pope’s personal journey into the accounting world was heavily influenced by her father, a college president and business school dean. Her initial fascination with accounting sparked during her childhood and was later intensified by an embezzlement scandal involving one of her father's employees. The experience opened her eyes to the complexities of financial crimes and the unfortunate reality that good people can make and even rationalize poor decisions under certain circumstances.

Pope also discussed another memorable incident that helped shape her career; as a young Girl Scout, Pope said that she once "borrowed" money from her cookie sales proceeds to buy snacks, a decision that her mother used to teach her about the seriousness of embezzlement─however minor it seemed at first. This early lesson in financial integrity stuck with her, contributing to the development of her passion for uncovering financial discrepancies and educating others about the importance of vigilance in accounting.

The Complexity of Accounting Fraud and Ethics

Throughout the episode, Pope highlighted the need to consider the human aspects of financial crimes, sharing stories from her book, Fool Me Once: Scams, Stories, and Secrets from the Trillion-Dollar Fraud Industry, and her own personal experiences interviewing perpetrators of fraud. She stressed that behind every case of fraud, there are real people with complex motives who are often navigating difficult circumstances. This perspective led her to view some of the perpetrators she interviewed as friends, rather than defining them by the worst mistake they ever made.

Much of the podcast was dedicated to discussing the critical role of whistleblowers in uncovering fraud. Pope outlined three categories of whistleblowers: Accidental, Noble, and Vigilante. She said each plays a crucial role in maintaining ethical standards, yet they often endure significant risks and sacrifices. Pope argued that these individuals should be regarded as heroes given their courage to expose wrongdoing─often at great cost to themselves.

Pope also shared her experiences as a victim of fraud. These experiences underscored her message about the importance of vigilance and the need to heed red flags in any financial dealings.

Storytelling in Accounting: From Documentaries to Whistleblowing

The discussion ventured into Pope’s passion for documentary filmmaking, specifically her work on "All the Queen’s Horses," which explores one of the largest cases of municipal fraud in U.S. history. Through filmmaking, Pope aims to reach a broader audience and have a greater impact than traditional academic publishing might allow, merging her expertise in accounting with her love for storytelling and visual education.

Attendees of the Scaling New Heights Conference in June 2024 will have the unique opportunity to hear from Dr. Pope as a keynote speaker, where she will undoubtedly share more of her valuable insights and experiences.

Listen to the full episode below and be sure to subscribe to The Woodard Report podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and Stitcher to stay updated on the latest in accounting, bookkeeping, and tax practice through the expert advice and engaging discussions featured on the Woodard Report!